From Suicidal to Inspired: Interview with Kevin Hines, Greg Van Borssum, and Matt Runnells

[Episode 125] In today's social work podcast, I speak with three men on a mission to prevent suicide. Matt Runnells, Kevin Hines, and Greg Van Borssum shared their stories of managing suicidal thoughts, self-care, caring for others, and building a global network of support for suicide prevention.

I spoke with Matt, Kevin and Greg at the American Association of Suicidology annual conference in April 2018. Kevin's movie, Suicide: The Ripple Effect premiered the evening of our interview. These three guys were so pumped up about suicide prevention, so full of inspirational quotes and stories, that by the end of the interview I found myself speaking with the cadence and phrasing of a motivational speaker. Published on World Suicide Prevention Day 2019 as part of National Suicide Prevention Week 2019 and Suicide Prevention Month 2019.
#WSPD19 #NSPW19 #SPM19

Download MP3 [27:03]

Social media and gang violence: Interview with Desmond Patton, Ph.D.

[Episode 116] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast is about social media and gang violence. It is about 8 million tweets, cyberbanging, and using social media to get a 360-degree view of someone’s life. It is about the amazing research of Dr. Desmond Patton.

Dr. Patton's research uses qualitative and computational data collection methods to examine how and why gang violence, trauma, grief, and identity are expressed on social media and the real world impact they have on well-being for low-income youth of color.

Desmond and I spoke in January of 2017. He unpacked the complex relationship between gang banging and cyberbanging – a term he and his colleagues coined back in 2013. We also talked about how social workers can think about the relationship between social media and youth. Desmond encourages us to think of the online world as a new social environment that social workers need to understand. He questions existing agency policies that prohibit social workers from interacting with clients on social media and asks if those are empirically-sound policies. And one of the things that I love the most about Desmond’s work is that he combines the rich understanding that comes from qualitative research and the cutting edge insights that can come from analyzing big data.

  Download MP3 [29:29]

Death and Grief in the Digital Age: Interview with Carla Sofka, Ph.D.

[Episode 109] Today’s episode of the Social Work Podcast is about Death and Grief in the Digital Age. I spoke with Dr. Carla Sofka, professor of Social Work at Siena College. Dr. Sofka has been studying and writing about the intersection of technology and death and grief since the earliest days of the world wide web. Her edited 2012 text, Dying, Death and Grief in an Online Universe, looks at how changes in communication technology have revolutionized the field of thanatology.

In today’s episode we talk about the role of social media in how, why, where and when, who we grieve. She shares stories of people whose loved ones have died, only to find out that because of social media they are the last to know. Carla provides some digital literacy around death and grief in the digital age. She talks about social media posts as death notifications, about establishing digital advance directives and thinking about our digital dust.

She talks about STUG reactions which are Sudden Temporary Upsurges of Grief. I had never heard of a STUG reaction, but I actually had one during our conversation. You’ll hear me talk about college friend of mine who died several years ago and during the interview start to tear up as I recalled getting a Facebook notification that it was her birthday.  We then talked about internet ghosts, memorial pages, memorial trolls, how and when people should respond to death notices online and what that means for the loved ones. She suggests that just as we provide sex education to kids, we should be providing death education.  She also recommends including technology assessment in the standard biopsychosocialspiritual assessment. We ended our conversation talking about resources for mental health professionals who want to learn more.

Download MP3 [34:14]

Guardian of the Golden Gate: Interview with Kevin Briggs

[Episode 104] In today's episode of the Social Work Podcast I spoke with Kevin Briggs, retired Sergent with the California Highway Patrol. As part of his duties patroling Marin County, Sgt. Briggs responded to calls on the Golden Gate Bridge, one of the most lethal suicide spots in the world.

In April 2016 Sgt. Briggs and I talk about what it was like to be a negotiator working with people seconds away from jumping from the Golden Gate Bridge. Sgt. Briggs shared some of his strategies and his struggles working with hundreds of people, some of whom jumped and some of whom didn’t. He talked about getting famous and doing a TED talk. And then he shared something very personal – the story of how he found out that his son had been thinking of killing himself. Sgt. Briggs provides valuable insight in the professional and personal side of crisis work.

Download MP3 [35:50]


You can read more about his story in his book, Guardian of the Golden Gate and on his 2014 TED talk "The Bridge Between Suicide and Life."

Parenting Teenage Girls: Interview with Lisa Damour, Ph.D.

Update April 4, 2017: Untangled has been released in paperback.

[Episode 102] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast tackles one of the most difficult developmental stages in the parent-child relationship: adolescence. If you’re a long-time listener of the podcast, you know that I’ve spent most of my professional career working with or doing research on adolescents. Like most clinicians I have more experience with adolescents when things are going wrong in their lives than when they are going right. And as a parent, I can tell you that I seem to be much more clued into when things are going wrong than things are going right. Like earlier this afternoon… no, I’m just kidding, I wouldn’t do that to you. What I will do is introduce my guest. Dr. Lisa Damour (@LDamour), clinician, researcher, professor, parent, writer of the Adolescence column for the New York Times’ Motherlode blog, and most importantly for today’s episode, Dr. Damour is the author of Untangled: Guiding teenage girls through the seven transitions into adulthood.

I’ve read it. I think it is fantastic. I recommend this book without hesitation to anyone who is raising or will be raising a teenage daughter. The writing is engaging, scholarly without being boring, and full of practical tips that parents can adopt and implement immediately.

• How often should my kid be eating dinner with me? 
• When is the best time to have a serious and uncomfortable conversation? 
• My thirteen-year-old rolls her eyes when I try to talk to her, and only does it more when I get angry with her about it. How should I respond?
• Do I tell my teen daughter that I’m checking her phone?
• Where’s the line between healthy eating and having an eating disorder?
• My daughter’s friend is cutting herself. Do I call the girl’s mother to let her know?

Download MP3 [48:55]


I also think that any mental health professional who works with children and families should read this book. Dr. Damour basically hands you brilliant ways of explaining essential developmental concepts that will make sense to the parents and kids you work with. Plus, you’ll be able to legitimately recommend it as bibliotherapy for your clients. Check out the discussion guide: https://www.drlisadamour.com/untangled/discussion-guide/

In today’s interview we talk about why a teenage girl’s erratic and confusing behavior is actually healthy, necessary, and natural.  She talks about what’s going on in the minds of teenage girls and how parents can reframe their daughter’s thoughts feelings and actions. She talks about how society essentially abandons teenage girls and their parents. We talk about sex and the internet. And even though about 70% of the book focuses on how and when parents can know what’s going right, Dr. Damour draws on her extensive clinical experience to alert parents of when they have reason to worry. 

Critiques of the DSM-5: Interview with Jeffrey Lacasse, Ph.D.

[Episode 101] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast is a critique of the  Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, 5th Edition: DSM-5.

The most basic critique of the DSM-5 is the same critique that has been levied against psychiatry for decades: that it does nothing more than medicalize or pathologize normal behavior. So is it ever ok to say that someone isn’t normal? Are there ever situations where giving a diagnosis is good? As it turns out, yes. And I’m not just talking about diagnosis as a means to finance treatment. Yes, third party reimbursement hinges on diagnosis. But I’m talking about something less institutional and more personal. There are people who like labels, who find comfort in being able to name or label what is wrong. The label draws a boundary around an experience. Labels can even draw up boundaries around a group of people. According to psychologist Gary Greenberg, “[the label] Asperger’s syndrome gave people whose primary symptom was isolation a way to belong and provided resources to those who were diagnosed” (Reese, 2013).

Download MP3 [37:19]



So, I know what you are wondering - is DSM diagnosis good or bad? Well, today’s episode won’t be the definitive answer to that question. But, it will give you cause to pause when you think about the role of DSM-5 in the professional life of social workers and the people we serve. My guest is social work faculty member from Florida State University, Jeffrey Lacasse, Ph.D. Dr. Lacasse has published several critiques of the changes in DSM-5. In today's episode, Dr. Lacasse critiques the definition of mental illness, the empirical support for and reliability of most diagnoses, the politics associated with the DSM and the implications for social workers who represent the single largest group of professionals who provide DSM diagnoses.

Kudos to @socworkpodcast & @JeffreyLacasse for their critiques of #DSM5. "Normal is a social construct." https://t.co/KxG2eH1fBt #Socialwork

— Elaine Eisenbaum (@eeisenbaum) January 26, 2016

Personal and Professional Perspectives on Religious Child Maltreatment: Interview with Bethany Brittain and Ann Haralambie, JD, CWLS

[Episode 93] Today’s episode of the Social Work Podcast is on Religious Child Maltreatment. Longtime listeners of the podcast will remember that I first addressed this topic in 2012 when I interviewed Janet Heimlich about her book “Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment.” In episode 72, Janet explained that religious child maltreatment is any abuse or neglect that was done in the name of religion, or that was encouraged, condoned, or assumed as a necessary practice by a religious community. Parents are more likely to engage in religious child maltreatment when they are members of authoritarian religious communities. Janet’s book is a wonderful primer on the topic, and her interview was a treasure trove of information for social workers.

In today’s episode I spoke with two people who bring very different perspectives to this issue. Bethany Brittan is on the board of the Child Friendly Faith project and is a survivor of RCM. Ann Haralambie is a certified family law specialist and a certified child welfare law specialist practicing in Tucson Arizona. I had two goals for our interview. The first was to give voice to the experience of people who have survived RCM. To that end, I present Bethany’s story as un-interrupted tape. The second was to unpack some of the differences between the personal experience of RCM and the professional challenges associated with protecting children from religious maltreatment. You’ll hear Ann and me talk about legal, educational, and bureaucratic issues associated with child maltreatment. 

And now, without further ado, on to episode 93 of the Social Work Podcast: Personal and Professional Perspectives on Religious Child Maltreatment: Interview with Bethany Brittain and Ann Haralambie, JD.

Music, positive youth development, and homelessness: Interview with Brian Kelly, Ph.D.

[Episode 92] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast looks at an innovative approach to developing strengths and resilience in youth experiencing homelessness - a music studio housed within an agency. 

In today’s interview, I speak with Brian Kelly, Ph.D., assistant professor at Loyola University Chicago. Brian briefly describes factors that put youth at risk for homelessness and the three levels of services provided to homeless youth. We end with Brian playing some clips from the audio documentary, and discussing how the music provides insight into the youths' lives.    

Shared Trauma: Interview with Carol Tosone, Ph.D.

[Episode 91] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast is about shared trauma, one in which the provider and client experienced the same traumatic event simultaneously. If you're not familiar with the concept of shared trauma, no worries. It is a relatively new concept, but one that has been experienced as long as there have been helpers and... helpees.

In order to better understand shared trauma, I spoke with Dr. Carol Tosone, one of a handful of scholars whose writings and research have defined shared trauma. Dr. Tosone is Associate Professor at New York University Silver School of Social Work. She is a Distinguished Scholar in Social Work in the National Academies of Practice in Washington, D.C.

In today's episode, Dr. Tosone unpacks the concept of shared trauma. She uses her personal experience of being in a therapy session on September 11, 2001, when the first plane flew over her building, and how sharing the trauma of 9/11 with her client affected her professional and personal life. During our conversation she answered many questions: How does a concurrent experience of the same traumatic event as your client affect the treatment relationship? In what ways is it beneficial to the treatment relationship? How do you know when it is detrimental? We end our conversation with recommendations for practitioners.

Adolescence, the Age of Opportunity: Interview with Laurence Steinberg, Ph.D.

[Episode 90] Today's episode is about adolescence. I spoke with Laurence Steinberg, who wrote the book Age of Opportunity: Lessons from the New Science of Adolescence.He is the author of approximately 350 articles and essays on growth and development during the teenage years, and the author, co-author, or editor of 17 books. He has been the recipient of numerous awards, including the American Psychological Association’s Bronfenbrenner Award for Lifetime Contribution to developmental Psychology in the Service of Science and Society and its Award for Distinguished Contributions to Research in Public Policy, as well as the National Academy of Sciences Henry and Bryna David Lectureship. In 2009, Steinberg was named the first winner of the Klaus J. Jacobs Research Prize for Productive Youth Development. In 2013, he was inducted into the American Academy of Arts and Sciences.

In today's interview Dr. Steinberg and I spoke about the growing gap between onset of puberty and the end of adolescence; challenges facing parents, providers, and policy makers to provide adolescents with experiences and skills needed to be successful; and how reconceptualizing adolescence as an age of opportunity rather than an age risk is an essential reframe to address the needs of this youth in this developmental stage. We ended our conversation with recommendations for practitioners, educators, and policy makers. 

One note, even though Dr. Steinberg and I work in adjacent buildings at Temple University, I interviewed him over Skype because he was out of the state.

Healthy Sick - OutRunning Cystic Fibrosis: Interview with Elizabeth Shuman, LCSW

[Episode 89] Today’s episode of the social work podcast about Cystic Fibrosis, or CF. We’re looking at CF in two parts. In Part I we learn about this chronic, terminal illness. In Part II we learn about what social workers can do when working with people with CF.

Download MP3 [1:04:02]

There are about 30K people in the USA with CF, 75% of whom were diagnosed as babies, and half of whom are over the age of 18. CF is a genetic progressive chronic disease. People are born with it. The disease causes the body to produce thick and sticky mucous in the lungs and wreaks havoc on the digestive system, pancreas, bone density and other things. Because of this thick mucous in the lungs, people often describe having CF like breathing through a straw. This mucous leads to chronic lung infection, loss of lung functioning, and disability and death. In the 1980s children born with CF could expect to live until they were about 12 years old. The life expectancy for someone born with CF in 2014 is 38 years old. Treatment for CF includes daily medications, breathing treatments and chest physical therapy in the form of a mechanized vest that helps break up the mucus.  In some cases people with CF need lung transplants.

So, those are the stats. But what does it mean to live with CF, and what should social workers know about working with people with CF? I’m delighted to say that for today’s episode of the Social Work Podcast I found the ideal guest. Elizabeth Shuman is a licensed clinical social worker who works as at the Grove School in Madison, CT.  She also has CF. 

Beginnings, Middles, and Ends: Stories about Social Work from Ogden Rogers, Ph.D.

[Episode 87] In today's social work podcast, we're looking at the beginning, middle, and end of social work. No, this is not an apocalyptic tale of burning towers of progress notes and zombie utilization managers... although that does sound kind of interesting. No. Today’s episode is much more innocent than that. Ask any social worker, first year undergrad or emeritus professor, “what are the most basic phases of social work?” They will tell you: beginning, middle, and end. In today's Social Work Podcast we hear excerpts from a collection of poems and short stories called Beginnings, Middles & Ends: Sideways Stories on the Art & Soul of Social Work, written by Ogden W. Rogers, Ph.D., LCSW, ACSW, Professor and Chair of the Department of Social Work at The University of Wisconsin-River Falls, and published in 2013 by White Hat Communications. Ogden has written a beautiful little collection of stories from his 30 years of social work experience. Of the 99 stories in his collection, we’ll hear six, two each from Beginnings, Middles, and Ends. 

Identifying and Responding to Sex-Trafficking Victims in Social Service Settings: Interview with Rebecca J. Macy, Ph.D.

[Episode 81] In today's social work podcast I spoke with Rebecca J. Macy, Ph.D., ACSW, LCSW. Rebecca is the L. Richardson Preyer Distinguished Chair for Strengthening Families and the Associate Dean for Academic Affairs at the UNC at Chapel Hill School of Social Work.

I started our conversation asking Rebecca how she became interested in identification of sex trafficking victims in human service delivery. Most of our conversation focused on how to identify and respond to victims of sex trafficking. We talked about the interdisciplinary nature of sex trafficking; how it involves representatives from law, medicine, social services, and how social workers can and should take the lead in coordinating efforts to help victims. And, as is the custom, we ended our conversation with resources for social workers, the Polaris project in particular. Rebecca was kind enough to send me a list of references and resources that I have posted to the socialworkpodcast.com website.

Since 2004 there has been a 150% increase in the number of searches for the term "sex trafficking." During the same period, there has been no appreciable change in the number of searches for the terms "modern day slavery" or "labor trafficking."

An Overview of Trauma-Informed Care: Interview with Nancy J. Smyth, Ph.D.

Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast looks at Trauma Informed Care, one of the most promising approaches to working with people without causing additional trauma. And I had the honor of talking about Trauma-informed care with Nancy Smyth, professor and Dean of the School of Social Work at the University at Buffalo. There are three reasons why Nancy was the perfect guest for today's topic. First, she understands what it means to address trauma at the micro, mezzo, and macro level. She has worked in both mental health and addiction treatment settings for over 35 years as a clinician, manager, educator, researcher, and program developer. Second, she's what we like to call a “content” expert. She is a Board Certified Expert in Traumatic Stress.  Her research, teaching, and practice focuses on trauma, substance abuse, and on working with people recovering from those experiences, including the use of innovative treatment approaches like EMDR and mindfulness meditation. In today's episode, we talked about Nancy's interest in Trauma-Informed Care. She identified the basic assumptions behind Trauma-Informed Care. She clarified the relationship between a trauma-informed approach to working with clients and specific empirically supported treatments for people with trauma histories, and treatment for people with PTSD. She talked about some of the ways that she has translated trauma-informed principles into micro-level treatment practices. We ended with resources for people who are interested in learning more about Trauma-Informed Care, including a bunch of episodes on the inSocialWork podcast series.

Perinatal Loss: Interview with Sarah Kye Price, Ph.D.

[Episode 79] Today's Social Work Podcast is on perinatal loss. Perinatal loss includes ectopic pregnancy, spontaneous abortion (which most people call miscarriage), late-pregnancy loss or stillbirth, and neonatal or newborn death.

In today's episode, I spoke with one of the profession's leading scholars and experts on perinatal loss, associate professor of social work at Virginia Commonwealth University, Dr. Sarah Kye Price.


We talked why it is important to do a thorough assessment of pregnancy and pregnancy-related loss during a biopsychosocialspiritual assessment. She talked about the importance of allowing mothers / parents to tell their story. She pointed out that, although no loss is worse than any other, there are different intensities and needs depending on the loss.  She also noted that families in which there was a perinatal loss, there can also be growth. We talked about the different types of interventions and treatment approaches for individuals and families who experience perinatal loss. We ended our conversation with resources for people interested in learning more.

Social Work Ethics: Interview with Allan Barsky, JD, MSW, PhD

[Episode 78]  Today's episode is on social work ethics. Every social worker knows that our profession has, at its foundation, a Code of Ethics (NASW, 1996/2008) that informs our decisions. Most social workers know what is right and wrong. The greatest ethical challenges arise when there is no clear answer – in other words, there may be no clear right or wrong, or the worker may have to choose between the lesser of two evils. In other words, it’s an ethical dilemma.

To get some clarity on how social workers should go about managing ethical dilemmas, I spoke with Allan Barsky. You might remember Allan from Episodes 76, when I we discussed Social Workers in the Court. You might also recognize him from his ethics column in The New Social Worker online or you might have even heard him talk about Ethical Issues in End of Life Care in that other social work podcast from the University of Buffalo, The inSocialWork Podcast. (It's a fabulous podcast, so I would recommend that you check it out). Finally, you might know Allan from his books, Clinicians in Court or the book that we are going to be talking about today, Ethics and Values in Social Work.

Clearly, Allan is kind of ubiquitous when it comes to ethics, so I figured he's a good person to talk to. In today's interview, we discussed Allan's relational 6-stage model of managing ethical issues. We also talked about dual relationships, role-played an ethical situation, and analyzed the role play. We ended our conversation with a discussion of additional ethics resources for social workers.

If you want to find additional references and resources, as well as a transcript of my conversation with Allan, please go to the Social Work Podcast website at socialworkpodcast.com. If you want to join the conversation about clinicians in court, go to our Facebook page at Facebook.com/swpodcast. If you’re on Twitter, you can follow the podcast at twitter.com/socworkpodcast. And now, without further ado, on to Episode 78 of the Social Work Podcast: Social Work Ethics: Interview with Allan Barsky.

Psychodynamic therapy with vulnerable and oppressed populations: Interview with Joan Berzoff, M.S.W., Ed.D.

[Episode 72] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast explores the question of what makes psychodynamic theory a valuable approach for working with vulnerable and oppressed populations.

I was excited to talk with my guest, Joan Berzoff, professor of social work at Smith College, because she's an expert on psychodynamic practice and addresses this very issue in her 2012 edited text, Falling Through the Cracks: Psychodynamic Practice with Vulnerable and Oppressed Populations, published by Columbia University Press. In today's interview I asked Dr. Berzoff, what makes psychodynamic theory a valuable or useful approach for working with vulnerable, at-risk, and oppressed populations? Why should therapists be concerned about that which is symbolic in a client's life? Dr. Berzoff talked about the value of curiosity in psychotherapy; the use of insight; applications of psychodynamic theory to school-based programs; why don't people think of basic social work practice as psychodynamic; and how to conceptualize the role of insight-oriented work with clients whose basic needs are not being met.

Download MP3 [30:15]

Religious Child Maltreatment: Interview with Janet Heimlich

[Episode 71]In today's Social Work Podcast, Religious Child Maltreatment, I speak with award-winning journalist and author, Janet Heimlich about her book: Breaking Their Will: Shedding Light on Religious Child Maltreatment published in 2011 by Prometheus Books. I was really interested in talking with Janet because her book focuses on something that is rarely discussed in social work - the role of religion in child abuse and neglect.

In today's interview, Janet defines religious child maltreatment, we talk about religious authoritarian cultures; discuss examples of religiously motivated physical, emotional and sexual abuse, and medical neglect; talk about the laws that are in place that encourage religious child maltreatment, and discuss some ways that social service providers can talk with parents about authoritarian religious communities and religious child maltreatment.

Lonely at the Top: Interview with Thomas Joiner, Ph.D.

[Episode 70] In today's episode of the Social Work Podcast is about loneliness. Since social workers don't talk much about loneliness (we'd rather talk about social isolation or social withdrawl), I spoke with Thomas Joiner, Ph.D., Robert O. Lawton Distinguished Professor of Psychology at Florida State University, and author of Lonely at the Top: The High Cost of Men's Success, published in 2011 by Palgrave Macmillan.

Cultural Considerations in Military Social Work: Interview with Dr. Anthony Hassan

[Episode 69] Today's Social Work Podcast, Episode 69 – Cultural Considerations in Military Social Work, is the second in a two-part series with Anthony Hassan on Military Social Work. In Part I, Anthony and I spoke about The Training and Education of Military Social Workers.

Any discussion of culture and culturally relevant practice begins with the idea that we are all cultural beings. We see the world differently depending on which culturally-informed lenses we have on. In the United States, where military service is not a requirement, being in the military offers a unique set of lenses.  I got a glimpse of the very practical, day-to-day implications of seeing the world through military lenses when I asked today's guest what I thought was a very straightforward question – a question I ask all my guests before the interview starts – "what do you want me to call you?"