Wednesday, April 5, 2023

The Emotional Lives of Teenagers (Part 2): Interview with Lisa Damour, PhD

Photo of Lisa Damour, PhD

[Episode 135] Today’s episode is the second of a two-part series with Lisa Damour about her 2023 book, The Emotional Lives of Teenagers: Raising Connected, Capable, and Compassionate Adolescents. In today’s episode, Lisa and I talk about how decades of research on the gender binary can provide insight into the emotional lives of adolescents across the gender spectrum. We talk about intersection of race and gender. We end our conversation talking about how it is important to help teens express their emotions, but perhaps more important to help them regain control. 

In Part 1, we talked about the difference between adolescent distress and adolescent mental illness, how the COVID-19 pandemic made it more difficult for parents to distinguish between normative adolescent distress or pandemic-related mental health concerns. She talks about the most destructive myth that is out there about adolescent mental health and what we as parents, professional and a society can do about that. Along the way Lisa shared some practical tips about to manage a teenage meltdown, a story about swimming pools, and she encourages us to think critically about the research that is being done on adolescent mental health and how the news media is portraying adolescent distress.   

Download MP3 [34:38]



Jonathan Singer: Hey there, podcast listeners. Jonathan here. Today's episode is the second of a two part series with Dr. Lisa De Moore about her 2023 book, the Emotional Lives of Teenagers, raising connected, capable and compassionate adolescents. In today's episode, we talk about how decades of research on the gender binary can provide insight into the emotional lives of adolescents across the gender spectrum.

We talk about how racialized and sex role stereotypes perpetuate beliefs about which teenagers should be allowed to express intense emotions, and whether adults viewing those intense emotions believe that the teenager is then worthy of protection, care, and comfort. We end our conversation talking about how it's important to help teens express their emotions and perhaps more important, to help them regain control.

Now, this is part two of a two part series, so if you haven't heard part one, go back and listen. In the beginning of this episode, I referenced a swimming pool metaphor that Lisa shared back in 2017, when I interviewed her for her first book, Untangled. The metaphor was that understanding kids growing up and becoming more independent was like watching kids learn to swim in a swimming pool. Now, I'm not going to repeat the whole metaphor, but it's definitely worth checking out.

In part one, we talked about the difference between adolescent distress and adolescent mental illness, how the COVID-19 pandemic made it more difficult for parents to distinguish between normative adolescent distress or pandemic related mental health concerns. Lisa talked about the most destructive myth that's out there about adolescent mental health and what we, as parents, professionals in a society, can do about that.

And along the way, Lisa shared some practical tips about how to manage a teenage meltdown. She shared a story about a swimming pool, and she encouraged us to think critically about the ways research is being done on adolescent mental health and how the news media is portraying adolescent distress.

Dr. Damour is recognized as a thought leader by the American Psychological Association. She cohosts the Ask Lisa podcast, which I had the honor and pleasure of being on as a guest in episode 79 talking about suicide in youth. She also appears as a regular contributor to CBS News, works in collaboration with UNICEF, and writes about adolescence for The New York Times. She's a frequent guest of the Social Work podcast, and you've probably heard her talking about her three New York Times bestsellers Untangled: Guiding Teenage Girls Through the Seven Transitions into Adulthood in Episode 102. Under Pressure: Confronting the Epidemic of Stress and Anxiety in Girls in Episodes 122 and 123. And the last episode in this one, her 2023 book, The Emotional Lives of Teenagers.

Now, one of the things that you all have let me know that you appreciate the most about the Social Work podcast website is having access to transcripts. If you would like to donate a transcript in exchange for a shout out on the podcast, please contact me on Twitter @socworkpodcast or on Facebook. And if you want to talk about today's episode with tens of  thousands of other fans of the podcast, join the conversation at, links to Lisa's book, a transcript of today's interview and lots of other goodies are on our website at

And now, without further ado, on to episode 135 of the Social Work podcast the Emotional Lives of Teenagers, part Two an interview with Lisa Damour.


[0:04:07] Jonathan Singer: I'm aware that we have been talking generically about teenagers, right? And we started out the conversation where I acknowledged that your previous books had been about teen girls and this is about all genders. Can we jump into gender?

[0:04:25] Lisa Damour: Absolutely.

[0:04:27] Jonathan Singer: A lot of the research is in the binary, right? It's boys and girls. So can you talk about gender and emotions, especially given what kids are expressing and identifying as these days, in terms of this spectrum of genders?

[0:04:45] Lisa Damour: It is so interesting to write a chapter on gender in 2022, right, which is when I was doing a lot of this writing, 20, 21, 22, because you're right, it is a fast moving, rapidly changing landscape. So, of course, the beginning of this chapter has like 14 disclaimers about why we would even ask these questions. Now, what does it mean to think about gender in any way at all? And so here's what I'll say.

[0:05:13]  With regard to the gender binary, that's what we've researched, right? We've looked at how do boys do it, how do girls do it, right? In these very kind of CIS and classical terms. I think a lot of that still holds up for a lot of kids, and either it holds up for them in their own lives or it's, to a user, the waters they're swimming in, right? I mean, it's not like the move to a more expansive view of gender, more fluid view of gender, has suddenly erased the fact that we have long socialized boys to act one way and long socialized girls to act one another way.

[0:05:49] Lisa Damour: And those things still operate very much, at least in the parents and on a lot of the kids. So I think that there's still plenty of I think it would be actually unhelpful to be like, well, gender doesn't matter anymore, and so forward, right? I mean, it does it does matter and it does shape how kids experience emotions and certainly shapes how they express emotions. But I did try to be very scientific in my description of how much anyone should give these findings weight for their particular kid.

[0:06:22] Lisa Damour: Because, of course, anytime we're looking at gendered findings, even if we're doing a very nuanced look, we're still doing broad strokes. And so I say very clearly in the book, if I describe something as sort of a girl phenomenon or a boy phenomenon, and it doesn't fit your kid. Don't worry about that, right? That's always been the case. Just focus on the issue as it is. So that's the piece around the kind of the conventional that predominated.

[0:06:50] Lisa Damour: And then, of course, there's a section in the book about kids who don't fit traditional categories. And this was an interesting section to write because on the one hand, a section does not do justice at all and cannot do, and I do not suggest that it does do justice to what it means to be a kid who doesn't fit traditional categories. On the other hand, of course we're going to address it. And of course my job as someone who's guiding parents is to try to address it by grounding guidance in the literature that we do have about kids who are non binary or transgender or some other version of gender expansive.

[0:07:34] Lisa Damour: And we do have a literature and it is clear in its recommendations. And my job everywhere and always, whatever I'm talking about is to tell parents what we know from the research.

[0:07:45] Jonathan Singer: I think that's helpful for everybody to acknowledge that the research up until very recently was gender binary, right? For any one kid. A research study that provides general findings may or may not fit. Even if your kid is on the gender binary, those findings may or may not apply and so take it with a grain of salt. But in terms of the data, what do we know about similarities and differences in terms of emotions for boys and girls? Or how can we think about that given that we are thinking more expansively about gender?

[0:08:26] Lisa Damour: So the big established repeated findings, right, like those are the ones we want to home in on, are that girls are socialized to talk about feelings more and as a result do become more fluent in the verbal expression of emotion. And that's no shock to anybody. And if we just think about the compounding nature of this, right, so what we know is you have a daughter, you're more likely to talk with her about feelings, be curious about her feelings. She then goes and hangs out with a bunch of girls. What do they do? They talk about feelings, right? I mean, this is no surprise.

[0:09:03] Lisa Damour: And then the flip is that boys by and large are socialized to be less fluent in the discussion of emotion. And then they all go hang out together and again compound what may already be socialized at home or through the culture. What I would say in terms of other big broad findings are that girls are given a lot more emotional latitude than boys. Girls are allowed to be sad, vulnerable, angry, to a degree like that. There's a lot of date research in the book about anger and how girls are and are not allowed to express it. And then, of course, girls of color being in a different category in terms of the punitive response to their anger when it's expressed.

[0:09:45] Jonathan Singer: Yes.

[0:09:48] Lisa Damour: Boys and I don't think we talk about this nearly enough. Boys are basically given a two lane highway of emotion, which is you can be angry or you can express pleasure at somebody else's distress. Like, those are your options, buddy. Whereas girls have this giant highway of what they can feel. And I will tell you, you'll appreciate this as, like, my fellow nerd.

[0:10:09] Jonathan Singer: Yes.

[0:10:10] Lisa Damour: And I just love researchers who just happen to ask a particular question. I'm like, I'm so glad you guys asked. So one of the findings about girls just cracked me up so much was in childhood, girls express less anger than boys. In adolescence, girls actually express more anger than boys.

[0:10:28] Jonathan Singer: Really?

[0:10:29] Lisa Damour: Yeah, exactly. And you just have to go with what the data say, because the data sort of would make you think that girls are all afraid of anger. Well, anyone who's raising a teenage girl can be like, I wish. But my favorite finding is there is one form of displeasure where girls outpace boys all through development, and that's in their expression of disdain. I was like, yes, they do. They are bringing it on, the disdain throughout their childhood and adolescence. I just found out, like, wonderful.

[0:11:00] Lisa Damour: I just wonderful that somebody even thought to ask it at such a granular level and then come up with that finding. So those are some of the big findings. And those findings have real ramifications for the health of the kids involved. And then I spend time in the book on the ramifications for kids of color and the gendered. I don't use the term intersectionality in the book.

[0:11:25] Jonathan Singer: Why not?

[0:11:27] Lisa Damour: You know, this is something I've done throughout my work. Like, when I've written about microaggressions. I haven't used the term microaggressions, though I've described it. A central aim in my work is to have it to be as conversational as possible and as accessible to people outside the academy as possible. And sometimes I feel like if you can really, really do the work and define it properly and leave the jargon out of it, I think for me and the audiences I have, I prefer to do that.

[0:11:55] Jonathan Singer: That makes sense.

[0:11:57] Lisa Damour: I think it's the question of audience right. And accessibility. And so I have a section in the book on gender and the adultification of black adolescents. So teenagers who are black are largely regarded by white observers as being older than they are, and that this actually has different meanings depending on their gender. That for the boys, they're seen as more dangerous and more violent and more less endowed with childlike innocence, and girls are seen as actually angrier. That comes up. And also more sexualized.

[0:12:31] Lisa Damour: And so there's all of these ramifications of being a black boy or a black girl going through the teenage years, though I will say you can be a pretty young black kid and be seen as older than you are and then have to carry those implications forward so it doesn't pick up cleanly at 13. I mean, these data go down to younger kids, and it's really distressing. But one of the variables that comes up when we see adultification is like less deserving of protection.

[0:13:06] Lisa Damour: And it's interesting, I find in my reading of the literature, my heart really leaps with discomfort more. When we're talking about we see them as less innocent. We see them as less deserving of protection. And maybe it's because I'm really kind of very used to we've read a lot about seeing these kids as more violent or seeing them as more sexualized. I think there's a way that that comes in at a very intellectual level because we know it, we've documented it a lot.

[0:13:40] Lisa Damour: But when I picture the other side of the coin is when they're suffering and they're bringing their suffering, we do not extend to them the same level of protection. We do not extend to them the same belief that they are kids and they deserve to be cared for like children or young teenagers or even teenagers. That piece where they get slotted into an adult space and then it's also a very you're on your own, good luck or you're in trouble. Right.

[0:14:10] Lisa Damour: I think that's the part where for me, it gets past, like, a research finding to something that I can really feel in my bones in a different kind of way.

[0:14:20] Jonathan Singer: Yeah. That is a really helpful reframe that folks see that they're not deserving of it, of the protection, of the care, of the comfort, of all of those basic sort of attachment needs yeah.

[0:14:37] Lisa Damour: That we extend to kids.

[0:14:38] Jonathan Singer: Yeah.

[0:14:38] Lisa Damour: These are kids.

[0:14:42] Jonathan Singer: Early in our conversation, you were talking about how parents might respond if they see their kid is having a freak out. Right. I'm wondering, is there a difference for parents of boys compared to girls in terms of how they respond to those freak outs? And is there different guidance, given what we've just talked about, about the kind of the two lane highway versus the multilane highway in terms of expression?

[0:15:14] Lisa Damour: Yeah. The research literature suggests there is a difference. That with girls, where if they are having a really hard time in front of us, we're more likely to want to talk about it, ask them what's wrong, offer support. And with boys, we're more likely to ask them to help them toughen up, not think about it, move on. So we see that with girls, I would say most of the time we're probably doing it the way I'd want to see it done.

[0:15:40] Lisa Damour: But let's come back to that most of the time because we also have the issue of rumination, which is where it goes badly for girls and some boys. But with boys, something the beautiful thing about writing a book is you learn so much because you're spending so much time in the literature. Like I really went into the literature on gender, assuming that the story I would tell is like, girls get to be vulnerable, boys get to be angry.

[0:16:05] Lisa Damour: And I was like, oh, girls actually do get to be angry if you're like. They're they're expressing quite a bit of anger. It's a complicated story, and I try to get into that complicated story, but it wasn't the story I thought I was going to find. What I learned in writing this chapter that to me, feels like one of the major lessons I took from sitting with the literature that we have is that so much of what gets in the way of boys talking about feelings is the way in which the culture has set this up as a girl thing to do.

[0:16:38] Lisa Damour: And that you picture a fifth, 6th, 7th grade boy, and for a lot of them, they are really trying to consolidate their sense of masculinity. And the girls are speaking fluently about emotion, and they are getting the message that that's not what guys do. And then if that boy goes home and the only person in his house who is asking about feelings or talking about feelings is let's say he's got a mom at home, if she is the only one doing it, even if she's doing a darn good job of it, I came to appreciate that. Actually runs the risk of confirming for the boy that this is a girl thing to do.

[0:17:16] Lisa Damour: And so for me, an unexpected takeaway from sitting with this literature is that if we want boys to talk about feelings, we really, really, really need the men in their lives to be talking about feelings, asking about feelings. Normalizing the discussion of feelings and that these fabulous, well meaning and maybe very, very adept women who are doing it around them may actually be backfiring in their efforts. Not across the board all the time, but, like, minimally. We need guys stepping up in this.

[0:17:51] Jonathan Singer: Yeah. And that speaks to this idea of the socialization of kind of who owns this domain? Do you have recommendations for how we get Dads to do a better job at having these conversations?

[0:18:07] Lisa Damour: We tell them to do it! This is super corny, but I'm going to recommend it. If there's a man at home, one thing that is actually just perfectly reasonable and effective to try is every night at dinner. If you're eating dinner as a family, like, you go around the table and everybody talks about the best and worst part of the day, and it's just routinized into the family life. Where Dad's? Like, "all right, this got me super upset. Or, I felt really anxious about this. Or, I was really sad and worried about this." It's just part of dinner, and then the kid gets a chance to do it too. So those kinds of conventions can help get everybody better at it because you're building it into the routines of family life. I think as long as you say, like, I know this is corny and you can occasionally pass, right. I think you can get away with it.

[0:19:07] Lisa Damour: But beyond that, I just think coaches for boy sports are overwhelmingly male. They are in such a position to help boys grapple with emotion in a way that it has no shame attached. And sports bring up a lot of feelings. Right. I mean, it's like a very rich opportunity.

[0:19:25] Jonathan Singer: Yeah. And I like how you kind of frame the game of good and bad or roses and thorns or whatever it's called, as a way for the adults, specifically the male adults, to talk about goods and bads in terms of emotions.

[0:19:43] Lisa Damour: Right.

[0:19:44] Jonathan Singer: Not just, oh, my good today was that I finished this assignment, but how did that make you feel? I felt really happy, or my bad was that I didn't do this thing. It was really embarrassing, or something that ties the emotion in. And I really like that version of it as a way of modeling.

[0:20:08] Lisa Damour: I don't think I'd actually even been that specific in my thinking. And you're totally right. It's really using the language of emotion in front of kids as we describe our experience through the days.

[0:20:20] Jonathan Singer: And I love that you brought up coaches, because I know that in the suicide prevention world, having coaches who are on board with suicide prevention is like, it's manna from heaven. Like, it's so important because kids go to coaches, right? And if a coach is like, hey, it's okay to be sad about this, it's okay to talk to somebody, it's okay to sit out for a day and also to say, it's okay to be upset about this and still play right. And I honor that part of you that's upset, and I honor the part of you that still wants to play. Right? It's very different than the feelings lady at school or the social worker, the psychologist, whatever, being like, no, it's okay, you can do that. Because kids are like, yeah, you're paid to say that.

[0:21:12] Lisa Damour: Yeah. Right. And I'm in the 7th grade, and I'm going to go back to class and I'm going to turn this into the satire of all time, right. Because that's what they do, because they're hilarious and that's how they roll. And so I think the much more organic opportunities that come up around kids and the adults in their company, they're really powerful.

[0:21:37] Jonathan Singer: I wanted to say that back to this idea of intersectionality. One of the things that has become, I think, better publicized in recent years is that there is a privilege that white parents have and white kids have about being able to either express emotions or express vulnerability or things like that that society doesn't provide to black kids and to some extent, Latin a kids. Do you have any insight on the literature or any recommendations in terms of this area of, like, yes, we want to encourage kids to be distressed and go through that knowing that if you have a black kid who is expressing distress in school, the consequences could actually be really terrible.

[0:22:38] Jonathan Singer: And parents know that, and so they're like, you can't do that.

[0:22:42] Lisa Damour: Yeah, you can't do that. It's going to be a big problem, and the consequences are going to be bad. So let me just deepen how awful this is and then let me point us towards something that I think we can, can and should be doing. So the data on how vulnerable black kids are to the hostilities of white people are staggering. I mean, absolutely staggering. And that hostility ranges from garden variety racism to lethal force.

[0:23:23] Lisa Damour: And so when I was working on this section, I was pulling the data on the chances that a black man will be killed by the police in the course of a lifetime. And I couldn't believe it. I'm embarrassed, but I was also like, oh, my God, these numbers are terrifying. Right? So I cannot imagine what it is like to be the parent of a black kid, much less teenager, knowing what we know about their vulnerability in the eyes, in the world, in the world.

[0:23:52] Lisa Damour: Of course, that is going to inform the kind of guidance that we give kids and where we think they can express vulnerability and seek help, right? I mean, of course that's going to inform it. And I would also say there's a piece where I'm like, okay, as a psychologist, how can I help? Right? Because that's the piece. These are broad cultural forces, and I'm trying to think about how I can help as a psychologist.

[0:24:19] Lisa Damour: So the thing I've become really preoccupied with is how to get more clinicians of color into the pipeline. Because I think that's actually one of the most significant solutions and one of the biggest gaps is that I think there's probably a much more likely chance that the conversation is going to go well if a black clinician from school calls home to a black family to say, I talked to your kid today.

[0:24:47] Lisa Damour: I think that conversation is going down a different path than if a white clinician calls and I'm making gross generalizations. But I think that one solution that we really need to talk about a heck of a lot more is how we get more clinicians of color into the workforce, because that has ramifications for questions like this.

[0:25:13] Jonathan Singer: Yeah, I agree that addressing the professional gatekeeping that has kept black and brown folks out of psychology and to a lesser extent, social work is really important until you and I fix what's going on in our professions. Like, what recommendations do you have for parents in terms of this idea of what you were talking about earlier about not equating having a bad day with being mentally ill.

[0:25:54] Lisa Damour: So this really actually gets us right to chapters four and five. The last two chapters of the book because distress is not the definition of mental health. It's really how the distress gets handled where we get really interested about whether or not there's grounds for concern. And so another kind of main aim of the book is to bring across the emotion regulation literature, which is very dry sounding but actually quite fabulous.

[0:26:32] Lisa Damour: And what I did with this book is I took the emotion regulation literature and I organized it, as psychologists sometimes do, into the two categories of regulating emotions by expressing them and regulating emotions by bringing them back under control. And one is chapter four and one is chapter five. And what I'll say, Jonathan, I know it's not a radical thing to do, but I do think it may strike people as radical that I am putting bringing emotions back under control on equal footing with helping kids express emotions.

[0:27:01] Lisa Damour: And I think the reason it may seem surprising to some people that I am saying that these are of equal value is that certainly among white families in our culture right now, our default position is if a teenager is upset the right thing. And perhaps the only thing to do is to get that kid to tell you what's wrong and to talk with them about their feeling. And maybe to talk that feeling to death. Or root it out by excavating it from its roots.

[0:27:32] Lisa Damour: And it's fascinating. And so often how do I get them to talk to me and how do you talk to kids about this? And you'd think as a psychologist I'd be like, yeah, but mostly I'm like, I don't know. Is it always necessary? Do we have to talk about feelings so much? What I'm aware of is talking about feelings works until it doesn't. And this was something we were kind of gesturing at earlier, that sometimes talking about feelings turns into rumination, where there is this going over and over and over and over something and actually feeling worse the more you focus on it.

[0:28:03] Lisa Damour: So I'm all for talking about feelings. If it's working and if it's what the kid wants, then fantastic. Sometimes it's not working and you need another set of strategies and sometimes it's not what the kid wants and you need another set of strategies. And so in chapter four and chapter five, I detail all of the other options. So sometimes in chapter four kids are expressing but not through language, right? They're using art or music or physicality or any variety of things to, as they say, get their feelings out.

[0:28:33] Lisa Damour: And then chapter five is entirely on the side of like, how do we help kids get their feedback under them around an emotion? So where do comforts fit into this? Where does distraction fit in? Distraction is actually a key player much more than we talk about. Where does problem solving fit in, right? Like advice giving between parent and teenager. Where does helping kids shift their thinking fit in? Where does perspective changing fit in?

[0:28:58] Lisa Damour: So there's all of this there's a giant toolbox of helping kids bring it back under control that is largely neglected or denigrated for seeming somehow dismissive of kids emotions. And I really am clear in the book, like start in chapter four, give the kid a chance to express, like don't dismiss it out of the gate. But if that's not working, or if that stops working, keep rolling into chapter five because it's going to be this other set of strategies which are also emotion regulation strategies. They are also really important that are going to help your kid get through that moment.

[0:29:35] Jonathan Singer: So I think this is really important, this distinction between and correct me if I'm not characterizing this right, but the distinction between expressing and sort of talking it out, which is kind of relational and then there's the management, which is something that kids might be able to do on their own. Is that true?

[0:30:04] Lisa Damour: I think that is true. I think a lot of how kids bring emotions back under control can be a more private experience, right? They'll get in bed, they'll take a long shower, they'll cuddle with the dog, they'll go watch a TV show. That just takes their mind off of it. So those things can be more interior to the teenager. But I will also say in chapter five, which is the containment chapter, like getting it under control, there's a very long section about how to give advice to teenagers.

[0:30:33] Lisa Damour: There's a very long section about which is not easy to do, right? And you can do it, but you have to do it really wisely and carefully. There's a long section about things adults can do and say to help kids gain a sense of perspective on whatever it is that's bothering them. So there's a lot on the relational side in the getting things under control. And sometimes, actually to flip it back around, sometimes on the expressive side, it's not about a conversation, right? It's a kid who's in their room having an angry dance and playing their angry song playlist or it's a kid who's making a piece of art that is wildly expressive but in a very private experience.

[0:31:14] Lisa Damour: So I think the kind of relational interior, like you see it across both. And that's actually what I want people to know. You have a part to play, but it's not always getting your kid to tell you what's wrong. I think that's what I really hope people take from this is that it's great if your kid is telling you what's wrong or wants to, but if that's not your kid in that moment, you are not helpless.

[0:31:40] Lisa Damour: You have dozen other options that you can bring to the table to help your kid through that moment.

[0:31:47] Jonathan Singer: So if your kid comes home and is clearly upset and you're like, hey, what's going on? They're like, I can't talk about it. I'm going upstairs. Or they don't even say that. They're like and they walk upstairs and then they come down 45 minutes later and they're like, hey, can I help with dinner? Or whatever. You haven't failed as a parent. You don't have to be like, "hey, you were really upset earlier. Let's talk about it." Right?

[0:32:16] Lisa Damour: No. The kid has regulated like a champ, right? As long as they weren't getting high in their room, I don't care what they were. You know what I mean? If the kid is like, "I go up, I look at old pictures..." Teenagers are fabulous at comforting themselves, right? They have all of these strategies and they use them often seamlessly, very intuitively. So I went up, I looked at all pictures, and then I wrote an angry letter in my journal and got it out of my system and I'm ready to help with dinner.

[0:32:44] Lisa Damour: What more could we want, right? And I think that's what's sort of a fascinating I haven't even thought about this, Jonathan. In some ways, we were so on top of our kids through the pandemic. We had so much knowledge of when they were using the restroom. We knew everything. And so I think maybe part of what I hope comes away from this book for readers is like, your kid managing feelings privately is perfectly fine and in fact, normal and healthy and expectable. It just may be different from what was going on for the two years of lockdown.

[0:33:21] Jonathan Singer: Wow, that's such a good point. I've never thought about that before.

[0:33:25] Lisa Damour: I hadn't thought about it till just now. Right? I have two kids. It was intimate through the pandemic and not in developmentally typical ways. I mean, my older daughter was a high school sophomore and junior. She should not have been home like she was home.

[0:33:42] Jonathan Singer: Right.

[0:33:43] Lisa Damour: I loved it, but that was not standard practice.

[0:33:48] Jonathan Singer: Right. Well, so, Lisa, thank you so much for taking all of this time and for talking with us today about your new book, the Emotional Lives of Teenagers, and for being back here and sharing your insight with us.

[0:34:03] Lisa Damour: Oh, man. Jonathan, thank you for having me. I mean, this is like, really my favorite conversation. 


[0:34:08] Jonathan Singer: I'm Jonathan Singer, and thanks for being with me today for another episode of The Social Work podcast. If you missed an episode or have suggestions for future episodes, please visit To all the social workers out there, keep up the good work. We'll see you next time at the Social Work Podcast. 

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APA (7th ed) citation for this podcast:

Singer, J. B. (Producer). (2023, April 5). #135 - The Emotional Lives of Teenagers (Part 2): Interview with Lisa Damour, PhD [Audio Podcast]. Social Work Podcast. Retrieved from

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