[Episode 146] In today’s episode of the Social Work Podcast I talk with NASW CEO, Dr. Anthony Estreet, about what he sees as some of the most pressing issues shaping the future of social work. These include the rapid evolution of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the urgent need for social workers to organize and advocate, the Social Work Interstate Compact, and NASW's renewed vision for the organization.
Bio
Anthony Estreet, PhD, MBA, LCSW-C, earned a bachelor’s in science in psychology from Bowie State University, an MSW at Virginia Commonwealth University, a doctorate in social work at Morgan State University, and an MBA at the University Maryland-College Park. He is a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, the oldest intercollegiate African American fraternity.
He has been a professor and chair of the Master of Social Work Program at Morgan State University since 2013. Estreet is also founder and chief executive officer of Next Step Treatment Center in Baltimore, which provides substance use treatment and mental health services. He was vice president of the NASW Board of Directors but stepped down from that role after being considered a candidate in the search process. Estreet also served as president of the NASW Maryland Chapter and is an active member of the Council on Social Work Education and the National Association of Black Social Workers.
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Transcript
Introduction
Hey there podcast listeners, Jonathan here. In today’s episode of the Social Work Podcast we're talking about the rapidly evolving landscape of social work. Today, guest is Dr. Anthony Estreet, CEO of the National Association of Social Workers (NASW). I spoke with Dr. Estreet at the 2025 NASW national conference in Chicago, IL about some of the most pressing topics shaping the future of social work.
In this episode, Dr. Estreet talks about:
- The rapid evolution of Artificial Intelligence (AI) (one of my favorite topics) and its profound implications for social work practice. We discuss both the incredible possibilities AI offers, as well as the critical need for social workers to be at the table to ensure ethical use, protect against bias, and ensure AI complements, rather than replaces, human connection. We'll also touch on NASW's efforts to update the Code of Ethics and practice guidelines to include AI.
- The urgent call for social workers to organize and advocate in the current political climate, particularly in the face of policies challenging Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI)—which Dr. Estreet emphasizes is the "heartbeat of the profession". We'll discuss the power of collective voice and action at both state and national levels.
- We talk about the Social Work Interstate Compact – a major game-changer for the profession. Dr. Estreet talks about how this will allow social workers to practice across state lines with a single license, enhancing mobility, expanding access to mental health services, and addressing shortages in underserved areas. Now, it isn’t all good and Dr. Estreet provides some updates on its progress and discusses some important considerations for practitioners.
- Finally, we'll hear about NASW's renewed vision for the organization, symbolized by its new logo, and its commitment to deep listening, inclusivity, responsiveness, and meeting the diverse needs of its members.
This is a vital conversation for every social worker, highlighting the innovations, challenges, and opportunities that define our profession's future.
And now, without further ado, on to Episode 146 of the Social Work Podcast: The Evolving Landscape of Social Work Practice: Technology, Advocacy, and the Interstate Compact with NASW CEO Dr. Anthony Estreet.
Interview
Anthony Estreet: Thank you for having me. I think this is an important conversation especially as we look to the current political climate, but just also the the future of social work. it's a changing landscape and it's ever evolving and things are happening really fast.
Jonathan Singer: Absolutely. So speaking of the evolving nature of social work, what are some of the things that are on the horizon? What are some trends? What are some things that you're seeing? that social workers should know about.
Anthony Estreet: Oh man, I think I mean off the off the rip, I would probably say the future of AI and what that looks like in terms of social work. I am a person that grew up in the early Terminator days. And so, it is very interesting but also very frightening to see how fast AI is evolving. But I think the other part of it too, it's also very curious to see how AI is evolving and how we can come up with different ways to help advance the field but also to leverage the the benefits of AI for social work practice.
And what I mean by that is... I was at this symposium on at the National Academy of Medicine and they gave this example of AI and digital health and what it can look like - and they're really talking about physical health. They gave this example of how they utilize AI to scour thousands of scientific journals to come up with a solution for a nontraditional presentation of a disorder and they were able to treat young kid. And so that right there is like the the the possibilities and hope of innovation around artificial intelligence.
At the same time, we've also seen instances where people have used AI or AI has been used and it has falsely identified or showed bias when it comes to like facial recognition and police profiling and things like that. So, there's a lot of space for social workers to get involved in how it's evolving. But I think the other part of it too, and this is what I talked about at the National Academy of Medicine, is making sure that social workers are at the table so that we're not using artificial intelligence to replace social workers, but to be a benefit to social workers. And we also have to catch up with the science and make sure that we are making sure policy is protecting social workers, making sure there's ethics and boundaries protecting how we use AI and what it looks like. Illinois just passed a very interesting bill that that has made it illegal for AI chat bots to be marketed as therapists. But what it also does is it provides protection to clients. It makes if you're going to use AI in your mental health practice, you have to have consent of the client to use it. And so that is what I'm talking about in terms of innovation in terms of the workforce, but also how we can move the profession alongside of how fast AI is growing.
Jonathan Singer: I love that. Well, and so many of the things that you just talked about the idea of um protecting the profession, right? And also understanding the innovation and the possibilities that come along with it. What is NASW National's role in that?
Anthony Estreet: Yeah. And so the first iteration of it is certainly being on this symposium with the National Academy of Medicine. I was the only representative of a non-physical health organization. And so I certainly brought in the voice of behavioral health. With social workers being the largest providers of behavioral health, it's important to carry that voice forward. I think the next iteration of it is really thinking about how do we create an AI task force within the profession that really is going to help guide what the next steps are in terms of ethics, how social workers should interact, and practice guides. During your presentation today, you talked about the guidelines that we have around social work and technology. So, we need to look at social work and technology and and update that to include artificial intelligence and how social workers can engage with this technology.
Jonathan Singer: And I love what you're saying, which is that one of the roles of the national office is to say we have guidelines, we have standards, we have expectations, the code of ethics, for example, which we know hasn't been revised since generative AI really jumped on the scene. And so, it sounds like these are some of the things that are going to be coming down the pike that that social workers need to know about and that NASW is going to, kind of, be leading the charge on.
Anthony Estreet: Yeah. And I think that it gives us the opportunity to also be more innovative, right? I think that, you know, within our social work ecosystem, without within the NASW ecosystem, we have a lot of experts that can guide this and I think that it's reaching out to experts across the profession and kind of getting their input because they're going to bring different perspectives. I think about you, I think about Desmond Patton, I think about Juan Rios who are really doing some innovative things around like the future of social work, futurism, but also how you're leveraging the use of AI to do some creative things or even around creating pictures. I think in the conversation yesterday around artificial intelligence, Dr. Rios talked about working with young kids and using AI to create images of them graduating. Now, how powerful is that for a kid that that did not see themselves graduating to see themselves in a picture that is generated that they can then hang up on their wall and it creates a goal for them that they may not have been able to imagine for themselves. And so that's how we use AI to help the community, how we help individuals and how we leverage it within the therapeutic relationships that we have.
Jonathan Singer: So many possibilities. I could talk about this part of the future all day. I'm curious if we can pivot a little bit to talk about um the role of social work organizations in addressing issues of social justice during this current administration where we have seen um policies that have um pushed back against so many of the things that social work has embedded in educational accreditation standards, code of ethics, things like that.
Anthony Estreet: Yeah. And so I think this is a great time for social workers to organized. we had a session today. It was really powerful around the importance of coalition building, right? And so, we had HRC, Color of Change, the Democratic National Convention, and the Chicago Teachers Union all on the same stage talking about how are we organizing members and what are some opportunities for us to leverage those strategic partnerships to advocate on behalf of our members. And I think that, you know, when we think about the current administration, it can seem very daunting because so much is happening so fast. it is designed to be that way, and I think as social workers sometimes it feels overwhelming. I would I would argue and I would certainly encourage social workers to get involved and don't put your head in the sand but to actually connect with your local chapter, connect with your organization. Anything that you feel passionate about, find a way to advocate. You know, sometimes we get caught in the trap of as a social worker, I'm a micro social worker or a macro social worker, right? And I think this is the opportunity for us to be a social worker period. Hard stop and means understanding the role of policy. It means understanding how advocacy works. It means understanding that a lot of these executive orders that are coming out are going to impact not only the profession and social workers, but also the communities that we serve. And so, when we're talking about, you know, executive orders that remove diversity, equity, inclusion from our accredited standards, that is literally the heartbeat of the profession. You cannot talk about social work without talking about diversity, equity, inclusion. It is literally ingrained in every part of our profession. And so, you can have as many executive orders as you want. That's not going to get rid of diversity, equity, inclusion. And despite all of that, your executive orders is not making America less diverse. And so, I think social workers have to really get into this space of advocacy and really understanding like their role and the power of their voice. As CEO of NASW, I know it is my opportunity and my job to advocate for more membership. At the same time, I also want to remind people that if you're waiting for an organization to save you, then you've already missed it. The power of NASW is the power of its members and how we use our collective voice to create change in every state that we're a part of.
Jonathan Singer: So would you say to folks who are listening to this who who want to get in there and do something who are like like what can we do now would you recommend that they go to their state chapter or are there committees and opportunities to get involved at the national level national chapter that they should be aware of?
Anthony Estreet: I would always say start with your your state chapter. The state chapters are the heartbeat of the Association. And the one thing that I will say is that in this political landscape, there are certain things happening at the federal level that we are addressing, but the closer the election is to you personally, meaning your home state, the more it's going to impact you. And so when we talk about the removal of DEI and book bans, that doesn't come from a federal executive order. That comes from a decision that your school board makes. And that is something that you can and effectuate change with, right? And so run for school boards like if people are not voting the way you want to, do a what do you call it? Voting cards that show their their their history and get people to engage. You know, I I often say, you know, educate, advocate, and activate. And it really came that last one, advocate, activate, came from Michelle Obama at the DNC. She said, "Do something." And so, as we're getting involved in this work, it's not just enough for me to sit here and say it. I need to bring two, three, 10 people alongside me to to advocate for this thing that we care about. And so, in my wildest dreams, it would be 800,000 social workers advocating for more diversity, equity, inclusion and social justice in this space, right? Imagine the power that we can have in command and Congress if we can all get behind a unified voice around the things that we need to do for social work.
Jonathan Singer: So, one of the things that started well before this current administration was the interstate compact and I know NASW's played a big role in that. Could you talk a little bit about what the compact is and where it is now and where it's heading?
Anthony Estreet: Yeah, so the interstate compact is really a a game changer for the profession. It is going to allow social workers to practice across state lines with a single license as long as they're part of a compact state. And so what does that mean for social workers? It means that when you know we have the things such as the North Carolina flooding or the LA wildfires and they call on social workers to respond, we don't have to go through that barrier of not having a license in that state or waiting for a state of emergency, a state of emergency to be declared by the governor in order for social workers to come in and work. It means that if California becomes a compact state that any social worker that is part of a compact can then go and offer services whether it's pro bono sliding scale or whatever. So it creates more of a mobility and affordability for social workers to to evolve their practice but also to to expand the scope of mental health practice in states that are underserved or may have a shortage of social workers. Right?
And so right now we we passed the compact legislation in February 2023. We are the fastest growing compact according to the council of state governors and we currently have about 30 states signed on. To be fair, because I also like to set expectations, there are some states out there that are just not compact friendly and they're never going to sign the compact, which is okay. That means we still have over half of our states right now have signed on, right? And so we're moving right along. I think the other part of it too is really understanding that there is a nuance, right? And so I like to operate in transparency. In the current iteration of the compact, it does say it does state that you have to pass a national qualifying examination. What that means is that if you want to participate in the compact that you will have to pass the ASWB exam in order to practice in that and in to be a part of that compact. And so I tell people all the time had the compact came out at a different time than the exam rates people would be celebrating the compact right but it it happened at the same time and we have to make sure that we are addressing both at the same time.
Jonathan Singer: Well and I think that's an important piece because there was a lot of push back about the ASWB pass rates. issues around whether or not it was fair. And I know that some states, like for example, Illinois, right, got rid of the requirement that folks that graduate from accredited MSW programs have to pass a licensure exam. You still have to pass the licensure exam to get the LCSW or do an additional 3,000 hour, which is a lot of time and energy, right? Um but but having a national conversation about the role of the ASWB exam specifically or alternatives I do think is an important piece for all the reasons that you mentioned that there's a lot of benefits to having an interstate compact. What are some of the downsides that social workers should be aware of that maybe they can mobilize for or or be prepared for?
Anthony Estreet: In regards to the exam?
Jonathan Singer: The interstate compact.
Anthony Estreet: Yeah. And so I think you know as we're thinking about the interstate compact we're certainly working with the compact commission to set up and establish those rules. Dr. KG [Dr. Karen Goodenough] out of Minnesota, the executive director of [NASW] Minnesota leads our licensing task force. And so and as our representative on the the compact commission and so what it looks like is understanding how the compact is going to impact social work practice particularly in those states that have less than favorable laws that support the communities that we serve. Right? And so the question always comes up if I'm a social worker in Maryland and and I am seeing a client in Mississippi. Could Mississippi because of their laws then come after me in Maryland? And I think that's a a real conversation that we need to have and better understanding. I think the the challenge is is we're not the first profession with the compact nor are we going to be the last one, right? And so there's there's ways to look at how other professions have done this and so we're doing the research to understand what that looks like. I think we have to calm down as a profession and I and I mean that in the most respectful way because sometimes we get caught up in the online rhetoric around this is going to happen, this is going to happen, instead of doing the research and understanding what that's going to look like, right? I think when we talk about the compact and when we talk about the examination, we have to leave room for critical dialogue to understand both sides of this argument and see where we're going to land at, right? Because again, and and I will say this till I'm blue in the face, social workers are going to solve the issues within the profession. When other people outside the profession start to try to solve those issues, it creates chaos. I've seen it and it's not great, right? And so the more that we look at and understand how the compact and some of the the the states with more restrictive laws are going to impact social workers, the better we'll be able to understand it and guide social workers, right? Because the other part of it too of the compact is just because you're able to practice in another state does not mean that you're absolved from understanding the laws in that state. And so as a practice part of it and as part of workforce development, when you become part of the compact, you're responsible for not only understanding the laws in your state, but understanding the laws of the states that you're also working into. So there is a burden of responsibility on that social worker to understand how to practice and what the practice standards are of that state. And so there's going to be a lot of training opportunities to make sure social workers understand that. And so that also means understanding the laws that they have on their book.
Jonathan Singer: And so the the the interstate compact requires a certain number of states to sign on before it goes into effect. What is that number?
Anthony Estreet: there in order for us to stand up the commission, we needed seven states to sign the the compact legislation. And so we got that the comp compact commission is is established and fingers crossed we're going to hope to see the first iteration of the compact application in early to mid 26.
Jonathan Singer: Okay. So it is happening.
Anthony Estreet: It is happening. It is happening and I am excited. Long time coming.
Jonathan Singer: So one of the things that I was excited to see was the new logo and does that portend does that um sort of signal a new vision for NASW, a new sort of direction for the organization?
Anthony Estreet: Absolutely. You know, I think and and and I've been in this role for two and a half years and I've been doing a lot of deep listening to members, to non-members, to to people that wanted to let me know their thoughts on NASW. I think one of the things that has been very clear is that people don't necessarily understand NASW and that NASW has a responsibility to meet people where they are, but also to create an opportunity that is inclusive, that is listening, and much more responsive to our the needs of not only our members but the profession. Right? one of the questions I I get asked a lot is what is the what is the benefit of NASW? Right? And as I've been in this role is it's understanding that NASW can't be everything to everybody. And I think that we have to say that NASW is going to focus on these areas and then we can create partnerships and coalitions to focus on these other areas. For me the biggest benefit of NASW is that we engage in advocacy at every level. And so when we think about social work safety when we think about advocating for higher pay. When we think about mental health services for the communities that we serve, those are the things that we really do really well, right? And I think that when we get into these other spaces around how do people become involved, I think that is the opportunity for change. And so when we think about what is the benefit of an NASW membership, we have to answer that question based on who's as who's asking. So whether you're a student member, whether you are a new professional, mid-career, or retired professional, that answer is going to be differently, right? And every everybody's going to have their different needs for NASW. I think the other part of it too is in listening to members and non-members, we have to do something about the cost of membership and come up with different tier options, right? So that people be can become much more involved but also answer that call of making it more accessible for the profession. one of the things that I have been looking at and and we are certainly trying to pilot test is what it would look like for the the the Netflix model as I call it. what does a monthly payment plan look like for people in terms of membership? Because again, $200 and something dollars is a lot for a membership, all at once, right? But if I can pay over time, it might be better and it might not be that big of a burden. I know for me, Netflix has probably increased my rate so many times - I know what I started when I got Netflix, but what I'm paying now, I don't know. Because it it literally it's something that I see as a value. I use it when I want to. I mean, I'm good at watch binge watching something on a good Saturday, right? And so, as we think about, you know, how NASW is showing up. It really is trying to meet members and non-members where they are and creating opportunities for engagement, but also for deeper dialogue around what the social work profession needs.
Jonathan Singer: That's great. Well, thank you so much for taking the time and catching us up to date on what's going on with NASW. I really appreciate it.
Anthony Estreet: No, thank you for having me and I look forward to another episode of your podcast and and making sure that we get some drumming going on.
Jonathan Singer: You got it. Thank you. All right.
~~~END~~~
References and Resources
2024 NASW National Conference agenda: https://www.socialworkers.org/Events/NASW-Conferences/2025-NASW-National-Conference/2025-Program-Schedule
Singer, J. B. (Producer). (2023, February 13). #133 - Eliminating the ASWB exam from the Illinois LSW law: Interview with Joel Rubin [Audio Podcast]. Social Work Podcast. Retrieved from https://www.socialworkpodcast.com/2023/02/NASWIL.html
Key points from the interview
How is AI influencing the future of social work, and what role should social workers play in its development?
AI is rapidly evolving and presents both opportunities and challenges for social work. It can revolutionize problem-solving by analyzing vast amounts of data, as seen in its ability to quickly identify solutions for complex medical cases. However, there are also risks of bias, such as in facial recognition technology leading to police profiling. Social workers need to be actively involved in shaping AI's evolution to ensure it benefits, rather than replaces, the profession. This involves advocating for policies, ethics, and boundaries, like the Illinois bill that requires client consent for AI use in mental health practice and prohibits AI chatbots from being marketed as therapists. The National Association of Social Workers (NASW) is working to establish an AI task force to develop practice guides and update technology guidelines to incorporate AI responsibly, ensuring social workers are "at the table" during these crucial developments. AI can also be leveraged creatively, such as using it to generate images of young people graduating to inspire them, fostering self-belief and goal setting within therapeutic relationships.
What is NASW National's role in addressing the integration of AI into social work practice?
NASW National plays a crucial role in guiding the social work profession through the integration of AI. Its initial involvement included being the sole non-physical health organization representative at a National Academy of Medicine symposium, ensuring the voice of behavioral health, primarily delivered by social workers, was heard. Moving forward, NASW plans to establish an AI task force. This task force will be responsible for developing ethical guidelines, practice recommendations, and updating existing "social work and technology" guidelines to specifically address artificial intelligence. The goal is to ensure that the profession's standards and Code of Ethics are updated to reflect the realities of generative AI, leading the charge in how social workers responsibly interact with this technology. NASW also aims to leverage the expertise within its "social work ecosystem" to gather diverse perspectives and guide these innovations effectively.
How are social work organizations addressing social justice issues in the current political climate, especially concerning diversity, equity, and inclusion (DEI)?
Social work organizations, particularly NASW, are emphasizing the critical need for social workers to organize and engage in advocacy to address social justice issues, especially in the face of policies that undermine DEI. The current political climate, characterized by rapid and often overwhelming changes, necessitates coalition building. Examples include collaborations with organizations like HRC, Color of Change, the Democratic National Convention, and the Chicago Teachers Union to strategically advocate for members and communities. Social workers are encouraged to move beyond micro or macro distinctions and embrace a holistic approach to their role, understanding policy and advocating at all levels. Policies that aim to remove DEI from accreditation standards are seen as directly attacking the "heartbeat of the profession," as DEI is deeply ingrained in every aspect of social work. NASW's CEO stresses that the power lies in the collective voice of its members, urging them not to wait for organizations to "save" them, but to actively participate in creating change.
What practical steps can individual social workers take to get involved in advocacy and social justice efforts?
Individual social workers are strongly encouraged to actively engage in advocacy and social justice. The primary recommendation is to start by connecting with their state chapter of NASW, as these chapters are considered the "heartbeat of the association" and are closer to the immediate impact of local policies. While federal issues are important, many impactful decisions, such as book bans or the removal of DEI, originate at the local level (e.g., school boards), where individual action can be most effective. Social workers are urged to "educate, advocate, and activate." This includes running for local positions like school board, creating voting guides to inform communities, and bringing others alongside them to amplify their collective voice. The ultimate vision is for the nearly 800,000 social workers to unite in a unified voice to advocate for diversity, equity, inclusion, and social justice, wielding significant power in legislative bodies.
What is the Interstate Compact for social workers, and what are its current benefits and requirements?
The Interstate Compact is a groundbreaking initiative designed to allow social workers to practice across state lines with a single license, provided they are licensed in a participating "compact state." This is a significant game-changer for the profession, enabling greater mobility and responsiveness, particularly during emergencies like natural disasters where social workers can immediately offer services without licensing barriers. It also addresses mental health service shortages in underserved states by allowing out-of-state social workers to expand their practice. The compact legislation was passed in February 2023 and is the fastest-growing compact, with approximately 30 states already signed on. A key requirement for participation in the current iteration of the compact is passing a national qualifying examination, specifically the ASWB exam. This requirement, though controversial given recent discussions around exam pass rates, is integral to the compact's current structure.
What are some potential downsides or challenges associated with the Interstate Compact, and how is NASW addressing them?
While the Interstate Compact offers many benefits, there are legitimate concerns that NASW and other professional bodies are actively researching and addressing. A primary concern revolves around the potential legal ramifications for social workers practicing in states with "less than favorable laws" that may conflict with the social worker's home state laws or ethical practices, particularly concerning sensitive issues. The question arises whether a social worker in a liberal state could face legal action from a more restrictive compact state. NASW is studying how other professions have navigated similar challenges with their compacts. It emphasizes the need for "critical dialogue" rather than online rhetoric to understand these complexities. A significant "burden of responsibility" falls on the social worker to understand and adhere to the laws and practice standards of all states in which they practice under the compact. NASW plans to provide extensive training opportunities to help social workers navigate these legal and ethical landscapes. The compact commission is established (requiring seven states), and the first application for the compact is anticipated in early to mid-2026.
How is NASW evolving its organizational vision and membership model?
NASW is undergoing a significant evolution in its organizational vision, signaled by its new logo and a renewed focus on inclusivity, responsiveness, and meeting members where they are. After extensive listening to members and non-members, NASW recognizes the need to clarify its core benefits. It aims to focus on its strengths, particularly advocacy at every level, including social work safety, higher pay, and mental health services for communities. While it cannot be "everything to everybody," it seeks to build partnerships for other areas. To make membership more accessible and responsive to diverse needs (students, new professionals, mid-career, retired), NASW is exploring tiered membership options and a "Netflix model" for monthly payment plans. This aims to reduce the financial burden of an upfront annual fee, making membership more attainable and aligning with the value members perceive in the organization's advocacy and resources.
What is the expected timeline for the Interstate Compact to become fully operational?
The Interstate Compact has already made significant progress. The compact legislation was passed in February 2023, and the necessary seven states have already signed on to officially establish the Compact Commission. With the commission now established, the next major milestone is the development and rollout of the compact application. NASW is optimistic that the first iteration of this application will be available in early to mid-2026, allowing social workers to begin applying and utilizing the benefits of cross-state practice.
APA (7th ed) citation for this podcast:
Singer, J. B. (Producer). (2025, July 13). #146 - The Evolving Landscape of Social Work Practice: Technology, Advocacy, and the Interstate Compact with NASW CEO Dr. Anthony Estreet [Audio Podcast]. Social Work Podcast. Retrieved from https://www.socialworkpodcast.com/2025/07/Estreet2025.html
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