The Evolving Landscape of Social Work Practice: Technology, Advocacy, and the Interstate Compact with NASW CEO Dr. Anthony Estreet

[Episode 146] In today’s episode of the Social Work Podcast I talk with NASW CEO, Dr. Anthony Estreet, about what he sees as some of the most pressing issues shaping the future of social work. These include the rapid evolution of Artificial Intelligence (AI), the urgent need for social workers to organize and advocate, the Social Work Interstate Compact, and NASW's renewed vision for the organization. 

Bio 

Anthony Estreet, PhD, MBA, LCSW-C, earned a bachelor’s in science in psychology from Bowie State University, an MSW at Virginia Commonwealth University, a doctorate in social work at Morgan State University, and an MBA at the University Maryland-College Park. He is a member of Alpha Phi Alpha, the oldest intercollegiate African American fraternity.

He has been a professor and chair of the Master of Social Work Program at Morgan State University since 2013. Estreet is also founder and chief executive officer of Next Step Treatment Center in Baltimore, which provides substance use treatment and mental health services. He was vice president of the NASW Board of Directors but stepped down from that role after being considered a candidate in the search process. Estreet also served as president of the NASW Maryland Chapter and is an active member of the Council on Social Work Education and the National Association of Black Social Workers.  

Download MP3 [24:00]

The Role of AI in Child Welfare and Community Organizing: Interview with ChatGPT-4o

[Episode 137] In today's Social Work Podcast, I speak with ChatGPT-4o about the role of AI in child welfare and community organizing and how we can use Bronfenbrenner's ecosystems framework and an antiracist perspective. That's right. I'm interviewing OpenAI's LLM, ChatGPT-4o. 

On May 13th, 2024, OpenAI released the Omni version of ChatGPT4. This was a big step forward in processing speed. You could input video audio sort of visuals data all sorts of things and it could analyze it almost in real time. I've been playing around with ChatGpt-4, the earlier version, and you know talking to it on the app and there was always a significant delay as it was thinking through things and kind of coming up with a response. But the Omni version, the response is basically in real time, and I thought what better moment than now to interview ChatGPT, because you'll hear a little bit of the thinking, right? It’ll be a slight delay but no more than you would for any live human guests on the social work podcast.

Unlike a human guest, I didn't have to coordinate schedules. All I did was I took my phone, I clicked on the app, I hit the little headset icon which activated the voice input, and I held up my phone to my microphone so that I was recording my voice like I am now, and then ChatGPT just coming right out of my phone into the speaker. So, it's good audio. it's not rich deep audio like I like to have, but you know when you record over Zoom or Skype or any of the other things that I've done in the past again it's not pristine audio either, but it's pretty good

This is the first time I've interviewed a chatbot. I'd love to hear your thoughts about the interview. Please text me or leave a voicemail for me at (215) 948-2456. If you leave a voicemail, please let me know if you're ok with me including your message as part of a follow-up podcast episode.

Download MP3 [31:02]

The Power of Podcasting in Social Work Education

[Episode 129] Today’s episode is about the Power of Podcasting in Social Work Education. Shimon Cohen, founder and host of Doin' The Work: Frontlines of Social Change, and I read the article we wrote for New Social Worker Magazine about podcasting for social work education, taking a few detours along the way to explain what is on the written page. 

We talk about how to integrate podcasting into assignments and class discussion, and highlight the use of podcasts as a way of addressing systemic inequities. For the transcript of our episode, please check out our article at: https://www.socialworker.com/feature-articles/technology-articles/power-podcasting-social-work-education/

To download the Winter 2021 issue, go to: http://www.socialworker.com/magazine/digital-edition/the_new_social_worker_digital_issues and click on "Winter 2021." To download the full-color print issue, go to http://newsocialworker.magcloud.com

Download MP3 [39:43]

Under Pressure (Part 2): Interview with Lisa Damour, Ph.D.

[Episode 123] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast is the second of a two part-series about Dr. Lisa Damour’s 2019 text Under Pressure: Confronting the Epidemic of Stress and Anxiety in Girls. In today’s episode we talk about rape culture; the problem with the word "consent"; and how society's criticisms of the way girls speak is really just another way of criticizing girls. In Part 1, Lisa and I talk about the difference between stress, anxiety and trauma; what “good” and “bad” pressure look like; and how schools, parents, and providers can think about pressure.

Download MP3 [27:46]

2018 NASW Code of Ethics (Part 2): Interview with Allan Barsky, JD, MSW, PhD

[Episode 114] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast is the second of a three-part series on the 2018 National Association of Social Workers Code of Ethics. I spoke with Allan Barsky, JD, MSW, PhD (whom you might remember from Episode 78 on social work ethics and Episode 76 about social workers in court).

In today’s episode, Part 2, Allan and I talk about Section 1.05, cultural competence and whether online communities fall under the ethical standard of cultural competence. Allan mentions the NASW 2016 Standards and Indicators for Cultural Competence.  A few minutes later I mention the 2017 NASW, ASWB, CSWE, & CSWA Standards for Technology in Social Work Practice, and feedback that the Tech Standards and the 2018 Code of Ethics painted technology as problematic. Spoiler alert: Allan disagreed. All of the NASW Practice Standards & Guidelines can be found on the NASW website.  We talk about section 1.04(e), knowing the laws in your jurisdiction and the one where your client lives and how that affects practicing across state lines with or without technology.

In Part 1, episode 113, we provided a historical overview of the NASW Code of Ethics and discusses why the NASW Code of Ethics was revised for 2018. Then, Allan and I talk about Section 1.03, Informed Consent, and specifically subsection “i” which has to do with electronic searches.

In Part 3, episode 115, we talk about 1.06(g) – professional affiliations, and the removal of the word “disability”. We talk about 1.15 – disruption in electronic communications. We end Part 3 with a discussion of resources for folks who want to learn more about the NASW Code of Ethics, and ethical issues in social work practice.

Download MP3 [23:27]

Death and Grief in the Digital Age: Interview with Carla Sofka, Ph.D.

[Episode 109] Today’s episode of the Social Work Podcast is about Death and Grief in the Digital Age. I spoke with Dr. Carla Sofka, professor of Social Work at Siena College. Dr. Sofka has been studying and writing about the intersection of technology and death and grief since the earliest days of the world wide web. Her edited 2012 text, Dying, Death and Grief in an Online Universe, looks at how changes in communication technology have revolutionized the field of thanatology.

In today’s episode we talk about the role of social media in how, why, where and when, who we grieve. She shares stories of people whose loved ones have died, only to find out that because of social media they are the last to know. Carla provides some digital literacy around death and grief in the digital age. She talks about social media posts as death notifications, about establishing digital advance directives and thinking about our digital dust.

She talks about STUG reactions which are Sudden Temporary Upsurges of Grief. I had never heard of a STUG reaction, but I actually had one during our conversation. You’ll hear me talk about college friend of mine who died several years ago and during the interview start to tear up as I recalled getting a Facebook notification that it was her birthday.  We then talked about internet ghosts, memorial pages, memorial trolls, how and when people should respond to death notices online and what that means for the loved ones. She suggests that just as we provide sex education to kids, we should be providing death education.  She also recommends including technology assessment in the standard biopsychosocialspiritual assessment. We ended our conversation talking about resources for mental health professionals who want to learn more.

Download MP3 [34:14]

A #ZeroSuicide World: Interview with David W. Covington, LPC, MBA

[Episode 106] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast is about a healthcare initiative called Zero Suicide.  In today’s episode, I spoke with David W. Covington, LPC, MBA who, along with Mike Hogan, developed the Zero Suicide initiative. We talked about how he went from clinician to health care executive, from running a crisis service to organizing Zero Suicide initiatives around the world. We talked about what Zero Suicide means for providers and health care leaders and ended with information about how you can get your healthcare organization involved in Zero Suicide.

• Zero Suicide: http://zerosuicide.sprc.org
• David's website  https://davidwcovington.com/
• Twitter
• David W. Covington: https://twitter.com/davidwcovington
• #ZeroSuicide: https://twitter.com/zerosuicide_org 
• Zero Suicide Intitute: https://twitter.com/ZSInstitute

Download MP3 [54:49]


So why should social workers care about Zero Suicide?

• Zero Suicide fits social work values. Zero suicide can only happen in a culture where people are encouraged to reach for the moon – that is no suicide, but are not punished for falling short. This idea of a “just culture” comes from Henry Ford Health System’s “Perfect Depression Care.” 
• Zero Suicide can’t happen without social workers. Social workers provide more mental health services than all other professions combined. Social workers are team players and Zero Suicide is inherently interprofessional. 
• Social workers are advocates. What if health care organizations use best practices, but those best practices haven’t been developed with diverse racial and ethnic groups, or don’t into account complex medical or trauma histories? What if Zero Suicide means that health care organizations have to spend more on training and staffing? Who will advocate for consumers if those costs are passed along to consumers rather than investors? Social workers have a professional responsibility to be involved in those conversations.   
• Social workers are trained to identify and respond to issues at the practice – the micro, and policy – the macro – level. Well guess what – ZeroSuicide is like the holy grail of micro-macro integration: it requires coordinated changes in values, beliefs, and practices at the provider- and system-level. David will talk more about this during the interview, but in plain English it means that as a social worker I have to believe that suicide is preventable, know how to assess, intervene, and coordinate care, and trust that my organization will have my back. At a systems level, health care organizations have to make a multi-year commitment of time and resources to reduce suicide deaths, train and support clinical and non-clinical staff, screen and assess everyone in the system, and use data-driven quality improvement.  It can’t work without changes at the micro and macro level.

Private Practice for Social Workers: Interview with Dr. Julie Hanks, LCSW

[Episode 100] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast is about private practice. My guest, Dr. Julie Hanks, LCSW is the founder and executive director of Wasatch Family Therapy. She is a columnist at HealthyWay.com, Answers.com, and PsychCentral where she writes about private practice. She seems to be on speed dial for national media outlets like the Wall Street Journal, Market Watch, HuffingtonPost Live, and magazines like Cosmopolitan, Health, Health and dozens of others. Dr. Hanks has developed a 6-week e-course called Rock the Media School which is designed to help health and mental health practitioners build their online presence through media interviews, blogging, and building an engaged social media following. Get details at RockTheMediaSchool.com. She is the author of the 2016 book, The Assertiveness Guide for Women: How to Communicate Your Needs, Set Healthy Boundaries, and Transform Your Relationships

Download MP3 [52:33]


In today's interview, Julie talks about key ingredients for a successful private practice including:

• identifying your "big message;" 
• building relationships online and offline; 
• knowing what you're good at and outsourcing what you're not good at; and 
• reconciling "social work" with "private practice." 

We end our conversation with information about resources for social workers who want to start or build a private practice

Cognitive Enhancement Therapy for Schizophrenia: Interview with Shaun Eack, Ph.D.

[Episode 98] Today’s episode of the Social Work Podcast is about Cognitive Enhancement Therapy (Eack, 2012) - a relatively new approach to addressing some of the most persistent and intractable problems faced by people with schizophrenia. In order to learn more CET, I spoke with Shaun Eack, Ph.D. Dr. Eack has been involved in most of the clinical research on CET. He is the David E. Epperson Associate Professor of Social Work and Psychiatry at the University of Pittsburgh, and the director of the ASCEND Program, which stands for "Advanced Support and Cognitive Enhancement for Neurodevelopmental Disorders.
Download MP3 [36:08]

I spoke with Shaun at the 2015 Society for Social Work and Research conference. In our interview, Shaun talks about the development of CET, the computer exercises and group therapy - the two components of the treatment, some amazing research findings, and how social workers can get trained in CET.

Here's Tweeting at You: Using Social Media to Expand the Reach of Academic Conferences

[Episode 97] Today’s episode of the Social Work Podcast answers that age-old question, how do I live tweet a conference? In April 2014, I recorded a conversation with members of the social media team that was live tweeting the 2014 American Association of Suicidology conference: April Foreman, Tony Wood, Quintin Hunt, Dese'Rae Stage, and Cara Anna. The conversation was recorded at the end of four intense days. You’ll hear team members talking about the personal and professional benefits of live tweeting, how they handled controversial comments, and what it was like to be part of an historic moment. I include a "best practice" guide to help you plan what to do before, during, and after a conference or event.


Download MP3 [33:16]

Objective Structured Clinical Examination (OSCE) Adapted for Social Work: Interview with Marion Bogo and Mary Rawlings

[Episode 94] Today’s episode of the Social Work Podcast is on Objective Structured Clinical Examination (OSCE) for social work. My guests, Marion Bogo and Mary Rawlings, and their co-authors Ellen Katz and Carmen Logie, are pioneers in the development, implementation, and evaluation of OSCE adapted for social work.


The audience for today's episode is social work faculty, specifically practice instructors who are interested in learning more about how to objectively evaluate their student's skills. Today's episode reviews the origins of OSCE adapted for social work, how it is implemented in different types of social work programs, some findings from the research that has been conducted on OSCE, and some recommendations for faculty who are interested in learning more about this approach.

Disclosure: I served as a CSWE Council on Publications liason with Marion Bogo for the text Using Simulation in Assessment and Teaching: OSCE Adapted for Social Work (Objective Structured Clinical Examination). 

Social Work Podcast wins an 2012 NASW Media Award

Great news! Thanks to all of you who voted, the Social Work Podcast has won the 2012 NASW Media Award for best website. This is a huge honor and it would not have happened without your votes. If you convinced your friends, family members, classmates, colleagues and co-workers to vote, please extend my thanks to them. I am very honored. Thank you!

Best - Jonathan

Download MP3 [3:41]

 

Cultural Considerations in Military Social Work: Interview with Dr. Anthony Hassan

[Episode 69] Today's Social Work Podcast, Episode 69 – Cultural Considerations in Military Social Work, is the second in a two-part series with Anthony Hassan on Military Social Work. In Part I, Anthony and I spoke about The Training and Education of Military Social Workers.

Any discussion of culture and culturally relevant practice begins with the idea that we are all cultural beings. We see the world differently depending on which culturally-informed lenses we have on. In the United States, where military service is not a requirement, being in the military offers a unique set of lenses.  I got a glimpse of the very practical, day-to-day implications of seeing the world through military lenses when I asked today's guest what I thought was a very straightforward question – a question I ask all my guests before the interview starts – "what do you want me to call you?"

The Training and Education of Military Social Workers: Interview with Dr. Anthony Hassan

[Episode 68] Today's Social Work Podcast, The Training and Education of Military Social Workers, is the first of a two-part series. Part II, is a discussion of Cultural considerations in military social work. I'm doing this two part series because whether you agree or disagree with America n's involvement in what has now become the longest continuous combat engagement in its 235 year history, "There is an urgent need to understand and engage with the military service members, veterans, their families, and their communities in effective [social work] practices…" (CSWE, 2010, p. 2). I hear some of you right now; I'm reading your thoughts: you don't work for the Veterans Administration; you're not contracted by the military to provide services; you don't wear the uniform and serve in the armed forces. And yet, according to my guest, Anthony Hassan, you could still be a military social worker.

National Runaway Switchboard: Interview with Maureen Blaha

[Episode 67] Today's episode of the Social Work Podcast is an interview with Maureen Blaha, the Executive Director of the National Runaway Switchboard (http://www.1800runaway.org). So, if you're a social worker and you work in outpatient or inpatient or residential or you're in a school-based setting and you have a client who says I'm out of here. I am running away from home or maybe they don't even say I'm out of here. Maybe they're saying I don't know how I can live with my parents here. So, what do you do? What are some resources for you? If you're in a school setting and you're working with groups of kids, are there curricula that you can get a hold of, free curricula that you can use with your clients?

Behind the Scenes at the Social Work Podcast: Interview with Jonathan Singer

[Episode 64] Today's Social Work Podcast is a "behind the scenes" look at the Social Work Podcast. Danielle Parrish, social work faculty at the University of Houston, interviews the founder and host, Jonathan Singer, about how the Social Work Podcast started, how he selects his topics and the people that he interviews and how after the interview the podcast is actually produced and then finally how he uses Twitter, Facebook, and Google Voice [215.948-2456] to connect with his listeners.

Phone Supervision (Part III): Interview with Jody Bechtold

[Episode 33] Today’s podcast is the last in a three part series on phone supervision. In Part I and Part II I spoke with Simon Feuerman and Melissa Groman about their experiences of providing phone supervision and consultation. In today’s interview I speak with Jody Bechtold about her experience receiving phone supervision as part of her process of becoming a Nationally Certified Gambling Counselor. We talked about the process she went through to find phone supervision, some of the pros and cons and likes and dislikes. Jody contrasted phone supervision with face-to-face supervision and talked about phone supervision etiquette.


Download MP3 [15:53]

There were some interesting similarities and differences between Jody's comments on Phone Supervision and those of Simon and Melissa. Compared to the phone consultation provided by Simon and Melissa, Jody’s phone supervision was very structured and targeted. Still, her description of the experience of phone supervision, and the apparent benefits of phone supervision to provide a focused and convenient forum for developing advanced clinical skills, was nearly identical to the description provided by Simon and Melissa, despite the fact that Simon and Melissa are the providers and work almost exclusively with clinicians who are not working towards advanced clinical license. The most significant difference was that Jody advocated for a very structured format with required pre-session reading, whereas Simon and Melissa described a more process oriented group, one that is probably more appropriate for the types of clinicians with whom they work.

APA (5th ed) citation for this podcast:

Singer, J. B. (Host). (2008, February 18). Phone supervision (Part III): Interview with Jody Bechtold [Episode 33]. Social Work Podcast. Podcast retrieved Month Day, Year, from
http://socialworkpodcast.com/2008/02/phone-supervision-part-iii-interview.html

Phone Supervision (Part II): Interview with Simon Feuerman and Melissa Groman

[Episode 32] Today’s podcast is the second in a three part series on phone supervision. In today’s podcast I continue my discussion with Simon Feuerman and Melissa Groman about phone supervision. Simon and Melissa are licensed clinical social workers, clinical supervisors and consultants and founders of the The New Center for Advanced Psychotherapy Studies and The Good Practice Institute for Professional Psychotherapists. These businesses were established in 2006 and 2007 respectively, as learning programs for licensed clinicians from all training and theoretical backgrounds to learn together without geographic limitations. Simon and Melissa are two of a growing number of clinicians who use accessible and affordable telecommunications and internet technologies to eliminate traditional barriers to supervision, including geographical distance, time constraints, and lack of local clinical experts.

In this episode we talk about the technical details of setting up and participating in phone supervision, NASW guidelines for supervision and the benefits for supervision and consultation, and the future of phone supervision, including the emergence of webcam technologies. We end with an “off line” discussion about my experience conducting this interview over the phone.

Download MP3 [17:58]

In the first part, I spoke with Simon and Melissa about the similarities and differences between face-to-face and phone supervision, advantages and disadvantages, the difference between clinical supervision and consultation, existing research on phone supervision and some thoughts about approaches to phone supervision. In the third episode I interview Jody Bechtold, whom regular listeners will recognize from the ever-popular series on pathological gambling. Jody and I spoke about her experience receiving phone supervision as she worked towards becoming a Nationally Certified Gambling Counselor.

APA (5th ed) citation for this podcast:

Singer, J. B. (Host). (2008, February 10). Phone supervision (Part II): Interview with Simon Feuerman and Melissa Groman [Episode 32]. Social Work Podcast. Podcast retrieved Month Day, Year, from http://socialworkpodcast.com/2008/02/phone-supervision-part-ii-interview.html

Phone Supervision (Part I): Interview with Simon Feuerman and Melissa Groman

[Episode 31] Today’s podcast is the first of a three part series on phone supervision. In parts one and two I speak with Simon Feuerman and Melissa Groman, licensed clinical social workers, clinical supervisors and consultants and founders of the The New Center for Advanced Psychotherapy Studies and The Good Practice Institute for Professional Psychotherapists. The New Center for Advanced Psychotherapy Studies was established in 2006 as a learning program for licensed clinicians from all training and theoretical backgrounds to learn together without geographic limitations. Simon and Melissa are two of a growing number of clinicians who use accessible and affordable telecommunications and internet technologies to eliminate traditional barriers to supervision, including geographical distance, time constraints, and lack of local clinical experts.

Download MP3 [26:48]

In today’s podcast, Simon and Melissa talk about the similarities and differences between face-to-face and phone supervision, advantages and disadvantages, the difference between clinical supervision and consultation, existing research on phone supervision and some thoughts about approaches to phone supervision. In the second episode we talk about the mechanics of participating in phone supervision, how to set up phone supervision as the supervisor and the supervisee, risk management, and some of the benefits of on-going supervision or consultation for clinicians who have already obtained their advanced clinical license and are considered independent practitioners. In the third episode I interview Jody Bechtold, whom regular listeners will recognize from the ever-popular series on pathological gambling. Jody and I spoke about her experience receiving phone supervision as she worked towards becoming a Nationally Certified Gambling Counselor.

My interview with Simon and Melissa was a first for the social work podcast: it was the first time I interviewed two people at once and the first time I interviewed someone outside of the studio.
Today's interview about phone supervision was recorded using, what else, the telephone... or at least the 21st century version of the telephone - Skype. Skype is software that enables people to communicate for free computer to computer. I wanted to acknowledge the technical support of David Holzemer and the staff at the Faculty Instructional Development Lab at the University of Pittsburgh for figuring out how to set up Skype so that I could do this interview.

Interview Questions

1. I suspect that almost all of our listeners have had experience with face-to-face supervision. I was wondering if you could tell us what are some of the similarities and differences between face-to-face and phone supervision.

2. What are some reasons a social worker would use telephone supervision?

3. I’m wondering if you can discuss some of the advantages and disadvantages to using the telephone as a means of providing and participating in supervision. What are some of the common concerns about telephone supervision?

4. During my research for this interview, I came across a number of different approaches to supervision. For example, Baltimore and Crutchfield (2003) mention three models of supervision, each based on a different theoretical perspective – client centered, behavioral and family-systems. In the client-centered model, for example, the supervisor assumes that the supervisee has all the resources he or she needs to actively address the issues. In contrast, the behavioral model assumes that insight is less important than meeting goals and objectives, and using punishment and rewards to change the supervisee’s behavior. I’m wondering what approach you take to supervision and if you think that one approach is better suited for phone supervision than another.

5. Is there any research that supports the use of telephone supervision? Is less than, equal to, or more effective than traditional face-to-face supervision?

6. We’ve talked about some basic concepts related to phone supervision. I’m wondering if you could talk us through the process of becoming involved with phone supervision. Maybe we could start with the absolute basics - How does someone find phone supervision? Let’s say I find a phone supervision group, what are the next steps, the process of contracting, the logistics of the schedule, dropped calls, etc.

7. Part of risk management is receiving clinical supervision. However there are liabilities associate with supervision. Specifically, if your supervisee is sued, you can be held liable for inadequate supervision. As someone who does phone consultation, how do you address issues of liability and documentation of supervision sessions?

8. With the advent of sites like YouTube and Google Videos, it seems like people are rapidly becoming comfortable in front of the camera – at times embarrassingly so. As a result, people are using web cams like never before. How do you think that this increase comfort with video technology will change the way that distance supervision is conducted in the future? In other words, do you think that in 10 years we’ll be doing a podcast on the use of video supervision?

---

APA (5th ed) citation for this podcast:

Singer, J. B. (Host). (2008, January 28). Phone supervision (Part I): Interview with Simon Feuerman and Melissa Groman [Episode 31]. Social Work Podcast. Podcast retrieved Month Day, Year, from http://socialworkpodcast.com/2008/01/phone-supervision-part-i-interview-with.html

Supervision for Social Workers

[Episode 30] In today’s podcast, I talk about some basic concepts in supervision. I define administrative, clinical and supportive supervision, talk about differential uses of supervision, including improvement of clinical services and issues of liability. I also address the ethical standards for social workers providing supervision. Like many of the Social Work Podcasts, much has been written about the topic of supervision – more than can be covered in this short podcast. If you are interested in learning more about supervision or becoming a supervisor, schools of social work like the University of Texas at Austin and Smith College School of Social Work have continuing education programs dedicated to training clinical supervisors. There are dozens of independent continuing education programs as well as books and articles on the topic. As always links to further readings and resources can be found at the Social Work Podcast website at socialworkpodcast.com. Today’s podcast on supervision addresses a topic that is relevant to social workers at all stages of their career. It also sets the stage for an upcoming three part series on phone supervision in which I’ll be talking, over the phone, with two clinical social workers who provide phone supervision and consultation. The final episode in the series is an interview with a social worker who received phone supervision towards an advanced license because the resources were not available locally.

UPDATE October 20, 2008: University of Buffalo School of Social Work published a very engaging and informative interview with Dr. Lawrence Shulman about parallel process and honest relationships in supervision. Dr. Shulman's interview was full of practical tips for supervisors and clinicians in the field. You can hear this excellent podcast at the University of Buffalo School of Social Work inSocialWork (formerly Living Proof) website.

Download MP3 [19:32]